How to find a more feedback-friendly organization (as IC)?

Submitted by Anonymous (not verified)
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Manager Tools Trinity
I told a bit of my story [url=http://www.manager-tools.com/2005/07/the-single-most-effective-management-tool-part-1/]on the original O3 blog post[/url], but it's probably better to post it here and get ideas. Apologies for the redudancy. First off, I'm an individual contributor who loves learning from resources like MT. I believe that understanding how excellent managers operate gives me a good "big picture" perspective. Pretty much every source I've found is unanimous that O3s and other feedback mechanisms are essential to good management. But presently I'm in a very small firm (eight employees) where both the owner and my peers are scornful of any need for feedback. They see it as "asking for the boss to babysit me." I'm painfully aware that most managers don't value O3s. I've had maybe ten managers in my career and never known of one who does them. Is there any advice on how to find an organization that appropriately values managerial feedback? (The obvious approach is, ask about it during the interview -- but I'd rather not interview with organizations that don't value feedback! However, this may be an unavoidable cost in the exploration process.) I'm eager to hear others' thoughts on coping with situations of inadequate feedback.
Submitted by Greg Akins on Thursday December 6th, 2007 3:54 pm

Following the advice throughout the forums on building your network should allow you to find an organization that is more like what you're looking for.

Where are you located, and what kind of work do you do?

Submitted by Philip Reed on Thursday December 6th, 2007 6:08 pm

Greg,

Thanks for the good advice.

I live in the Southeastern US, but location is really secondary to me. I would move anywhere in the continental US to work for an excellent organization. I do Web development.

Incidentally, I noticed your name on the extremeprogramming list. I enjoy reading about agile methodologies.

Submitted by Richard Miska on Friday December 7th, 2007 1:31 pm

I'm an individual contributor in a similar situation.

The problem is trying to convince management to embrace O3s, etc. I do not want to leave the company or the department.

My plan is to work my way into management and change it from the inside. :)

Submitted by Mark Horstman on Sunday December 9th, 2007 3:19 pm

Let me repeat here the folly (and danger, frankly) of trying to change the organization above you.

I also think it's probably difficult - and perhaps misguided - to search for a job based on a manager's one on one behavior.

What would you do if a month after you took the job your boss changed?

Get promoted and do them yourself.

Mark

Submitted by US41 on Sunday December 9th, 2007 11:10 pm

[quote="mahorstman"]Let me repeat here the folly (and danger, frankly) of trying to change the organization above you.[/quote]

I was pretty sure that was coming.

One of the abilities I think is vital for effective MT managers is that we build an MT bubble at our desks and under us while the chaos, poor communication, and politics swirl about us horizontally and from above. My people get O3's. My people get feedback. That's how I work.

My boss works the way he works, and I get paid to deal with it. I believe it would be severely career limiting to shop for jobs based on getting a great boss. Especially when you consider we live in The Land of the Blind, which is why we one-eyed men who try these unusual practices stand out so dramatically from the background.

Don't expect O3's, feedback, or coaching from above. Drucker says to focus on your boss's strengths and compliment the weaknesses and shore them up with your own performance by contributing upward to their objectives.

Focusing on a boss's weaknesses will get you nowhere, and telling them you think they aren't as good at management as you are will get you... I think we all know what it will get us.

Submitted by Philip Reed on Wednesday December 26th, 2007 11:34 am

[quote="mahorstman"]Let me repeat here the folly (and danger, frankly) of trying to change the organization above you.

I also think it's probably difficult - and perhaps misguided - to search for a job based on a manager's one on one behavior.[/quote]

I should have been clearer. I'm not saying I would evaluate prospective organizations solely on one-on-one behavior; I'm saying that I would use this characteristic as a proxy to evaluate the value that the organization generally places on feedback.

Perhaps some orgs would value feedback highly, and give it regularly, but express it in a different format than one-on-ones. That might be a reasonable substitute in my book.

My present situation is a bit atypical, in that it's a very small company where I report directly to the owner. Therefore, because he finds giving feedback to be unworthy of his time, that attitude is reflected in the whole organization. (Feedback is generally referred to as "babysitting," not just by the boss but by my peers.)

[quote]Get promoted and do them yourself.[/quote]

It's an intriguing possibility, but apparently my career isn't really headed in that direction at this point. It's certainly not going to happen in this org. -- the only manager is the owner -- and because of ADHD and impatience, I don't think it will happen anywhere else in the foreseeable future.

To be honest I'm not even sure how I would aim at promotion to management as a career goal.

But I do find your site and your podcasts very valuable. They do give me consciousness that there are better ways of doing things. That's the first step toward aiming higher.